I might be buying a pair of home made Altec VoTT and Peavey

[Audio_by_Goodwill]

They remind me of a 1221A stage monitor put into a regular box....... except the 1221A used the 417-8H (12" driver), and it's own special crossover.

[VolvoHeretic]

Does anybody know the difference between the 418-8H II, 421-8H II and a 416-xx and why the 418/421 have a free air resonance of 35hz while the same looking 416's Fs is 24hz? (GM, Old Guy?) Surely it can’t just be the dust cap, and if so, I will just glue a paper dust cap over the aluminum one? If a heaver cone lowers the Fs, and I just start gluing on one gram dimes with rubber cement, (or magnets stuck together on each side of the cone) will it lower the free air resonance and help out the bottom end? I guess I have to have a call with Great Plains Audio on Monday.

Here is a picture of my EQ which is sounding pretty good, with amp bass tone cranked up also. I am forcing these things to play low although I am only sitting three feet away at the moment and I don’t have them cranked up since the little woman is in bed. (it's still not what you would call soft)

[VolvoHeretic]

Sorry Bowtie, but without having these Altecs and the Peavey's side by side for a A/B shootout, and each in a separate listening environment, those old, unsophisticated Peaveys can easily hold their own and so far, I prefer. They lack the Altecs unreal horns, but have a bass response altec can only dream of.

[valhallax]

if i remember correctly the 418 has an fs of 56 hz. your horns are 32b's. if you hook a peavey to the left side and the altec to the right side of your amp, you will wonder why the peavey is so quiet. the 418 i have measures 104 dbs at one watt. if you play guitar those would be awsome

[VolvoHeretic]

Thanks, Valhallax, I do own a beautiful custom built walnut Gibson clone I bought 35 years ago, but could never figure out how the hell to play. That damned thing is nothing like a piano or sax which I can play, so I guess the answer is NO.

And you are right, these things are efficient. I will admit that coaxing them to play low, they do sound mighty fine, they just aren't my A7's .

[VolvoHeretic]

If these things live in my living room, they will have to be shoved into the corners. So, if I where to add a 45 degree wedge shaped addition onto the back of them, the total box volume will grow from 8 cu. ft to 11.0 cubic feet. Think this will help them? Right now, they are 5' each way from the corners.

[Audio_by_Goodwill]

Does anybody know the difference between the 418-8H II, 421-8H II and a 416-xx......

I beleive the 421's are vented in the rear, while the 416 is vented in the front. I'm not sure about the 418. I don't have a 421 to look at, either.

[bowtie427ss]

Does anybody know the difference between the 418-8H II, 421-8H II and a 416-xx and why the 418/421 have a free air resonance of 35hz while the same looking 416's Fs is 24hz?

It'd be a much smaller list to list what's the same between them.

418 is a sealed motor(unvented) which probably renders it's continuous power handling a bit less than claimed. 421 is similar to the 418, and early 421's probably shared many moving parts with late 418's. In contrast to the 416, they're musical instrument/sound reinforcement drivers. They're ruggedized, heavier cones, aluminum voice coil formers, heavier damper.................... these are the general qualities. There are nit picky little variations between specific models, not really worth mentioning unless you're hard pressed to discuss gap depth, voice coil winding length, Xmax, etc etc, there are much better versed fellas here to explain all that if you need to know.

The 416 is the only one of the three mentioned that is a true "woofer" with usable extension into the lowest octave(in an appropriate enclosure, not a VOT mid bass horn). It has a lighter moving assembly and more compliant suspension than the MI/PA drivers. This comes at the cost of power handling, and abides by audio law #1 "everything is a compromise".

I am forcing these things to play low although I am only sitting three feet away at the moment and I don?t have them cranked up since the little woman is in bed.

FWIW, when the little woman is away and you want to crank things up a bit, you're quickly going to reach the excursion and/or input power limits of those 418's, and while you can probably overheat them until your house smells and the room begins to fill with smoke a few times, you'll only bottom the coil former in the gap, or extend it beyond the pole piece once.

Of course in my own warped mind i'd consider their demise a good thing as those have the stepped alnico motor of the most coveted of 416's the "8B" version, and i'd promptly have them re-coned as such, heck i'd even paint the frames the correct color for the 416 as well.

Just my .02 of course.........................

[VolvoHeretic]

Thanks BowTie. I turn down the bass at louder volumes. I will enjoy these as is for the time being, and after I get the A7s running again, work on these. I need to get some deoxit and clean up the potentiometers on the crossovers, one isn't doing anything except making scratching noises.

[bowtie427ss]

I need to get some deoxit and clean up the potentiometers on the crossovers, one isn't doing anything except making scratching noises.

You're on the right path, it should actually be an L-pad in the N501 though, most of the time they will clean up pretty good. But, every once in a while you'll find that the resistive winding and/or the wiper has become pitted and unreliable.

To expand on something i mentioned early in the thread, the N501's are really mis-applied here with the 32B horns. 500 hz is too low an XO for them IMO. Altec only ran them as low as 800 in the A8 system, 1500hz in their studio monitor(9849) application, and 1700hz in their hifi(model 15) application.

I agree with OG that the drivers are likely symbiotik loaded, i don't think aluminum phragms would still be working.

I'd wager that raising the XO point and installing aluminum phragms would probably render them a very different speaker, in a good way for hifi apps.

Again, just my .02...........................